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PolarTruckin |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
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Yeah . . . finding out Logan isn't over Veronica just makes me more upset and angry. Because Veronica is completely over Logan like she always is when they aren't together. The one thing I didn't want was for Logan to be pining for. Wow. Talk about disappointing.
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GutterDaisy |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
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I am also pissed over the whole Logan isn't over Veronica. I hate that we are still going to see Logan pineing away for Veronica while she and Piz are probably going be making goggily eyes at each other.
hey have any of you guys seen that video with Chris and Kristin? It's a cute video but sort of pissed me off because we never got interview like that with Kristin and Jason. |
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Meowmama |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
Quote: WHY is this? I hated that video-was it really necessary? The thing that bugs me most is the fact that we haven't had a hot L/V scene since the flashback in S2. I had convinced myself that it was KB and that she isn't comfortable with love scenes since in the measly kisses we did get her lips couldn't be puckered any tighter. Obviously not the case. Now we're treated to heavy making out and maybe worse with Piz? It's such a blatant slap in the face that I just can't get past it. What could be the reasoning behind this? Any ideas? |
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holly96 |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
Quote: I don't think Parker's back in Denver. JG just had less episodes to work with. She's probably just in class or off studying or something all episode. At least, that's my guess. Because I'm assuming it's not actually summer yet, so she would still be there. |
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PolarTruckin |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
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I'm not watching it but it pisses me off. It feels like they dumped L/V to make Piz/Veronica the new OTP and they're putting the full force of their PR behind it. Fuck them. I hate everyone involved that would do this when they would never do anything like this for the ship that means the most to the fans.
I guess the line really is drawn between the Logan fans, and everything else now. I feel so bad for Jason. I don't know what their problem is (whether it's Kristen or Rob or the Network - even though I thought Dawn was a fan of L/V) but I just feel like they've abused him. Okay, maybe that's not fair because clearly Michael and even Teddy were treated worse (I still think they didn't have to get rid of Teddy, they could have tossed someone like Jackie to make room in the budget). But it's like they've just tossed him on the trash heap along with this relationship. And all he does is talk enthusiastically about the show and Kristen and this relationship. I feel so very sorry for him because he'd have to see that Veronica/Piz is obviously the preferred choice now. They've never chosen to promote Logan and Veronica, but Piz it's Piz and Veronica all the way. People compared the Logan/Veronica relationship issues to Gilmore Girls, Dawson's Creek and One Tree Hill. But I think THIS is more like turning the show into a cutesy relationship drama. Because Piz has no edge and they're all googly eyed for each other, there's no bigger story between the characters. And now they're promoting the show for this great love match. I'm so close to being done. |
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holly96 |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
Quote: I don't think we have any reason to think they're doing this. We don't know what actual episode promos will be. And, as we all know, the writers have nearly no control of the promos. RT's been as pissed about many of the promos as many fans have been. One Chris/Kristen video up on the CW website, which a small percentage of fans are even going to see (and, when I watched it, seemed like about 80% inside jokes that went completely over my head and didn't do a single thing to make me like Piz or Piz/Veronica), doesn't really mean much. And the writers had absolutely nothing to do with that. Yes, it's annoying, but I just don't think it's enough to prove Piz/Veronica is going to be actively promoted as a great love match. There have also been videos with RH and JD. Obviously actual on screen events sound disheartening, but I just don't think there's any reason (yet) to think Piz/Veronica is going to benefit from some huge promotions push. And if promos do focus on Piz/Veronica (which they probably will--they love relationship drama no matter who it is or how much focusing on that actually turns off fans), it doesn't mean that's what the writers want. Heck, the GG promo for the Paris episode when Chris and Lorelai got married was nauseating, and everyone and their brother already knew that pairing was doomed. |
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samwg |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
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Holly - I think this episode isn't airing until late May (right?), so I thought it could be summer already. ... Though I prefer to think that she's in class, because Piz needs to go back to Beaverton for the summer.
It still really bugs me though. I'm just assuming he was talking about frequent flier miles in the "I'll come visit you in Denver"-sense, and the idea that he's going to go from that to possibly running back to Veronica in one episode ... might be the only time I actively dislike Logan since early S1. That's just sleazy. They need to mutually decide to be friends if he's going to go back to V without losing my respect. About the CL/KB video, I hate it's existence, but the video itself wasn't too bad. It was just the two of them asking each other stupid, inconsequential questions. (i.e. How's the food? Who stole the fish?) I don't think the CW is trying to promote V/P, but the showrunners sure are. I wish they would cut it out already. Most of the people they're trying so damn hard to sell on V/P have ALREADY STOPPED WATCHING. Give it up, show. You are a cartoon. No one ever complained about the lack of a character growth in Bugs Bunny. No one says "Boo" when Porky Pig doesn't show up in a Foghorn Leghorn episode. The show still throws out the occasional funny line so I'll keep watching. I love cartoons. But I'm done hoping for it to be something it's not. |
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JaneDtwo |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
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You know what gets to me, besides the lack of LoVe?
Even if I weren't a shipper, I'd hate all this time wasted on characters I have no investment in. What is Piz to me, even if I'm not shipping Logan/Veronica? He has not shown a spark of anything that would make me interested. His entire existence is wrapped around Veronica. And we are going to spend the very possibly last five episodes of the show we stayed with for three years staring at Piz's mug? That's the great pay-off? Max is getting a love interest. Whoopeeee! Who the hell is Max and tell me quickly why I care! Sure, he was an interesting MotW and a decent character, but why do I have to see him again in the last five episodes? Mac has a love life. Great for her. But she has been around to serve Veronica for two and a half years. Or be sucked into the Big Bad. So, why are we suddenly watching her romance? Why all this time invested? Lamb is dead. I wasn't a fan, but at least he surved some purpose. Weevil is going to have his own MotW. Terrific. Except he mattered so little this year, I've already forgotten why I cared about him in the first place. I find it hard to care now. A day late and a dollar short, you know. And Wallace is getting dangerously near that category, too. He's become the 3-minute exposition boy. Blink, and you miss his storyline. And I am, of course, laughing when I type this word. Piz, Max, Bronson, even Parker. What show am I watching? Why is half of the quickly dwindling remaining time is devoted to the so-called characters very few of us signed up for? Characters we know little about and don't particularly care to know more? I accept that LoVe may not be together at the end of the season/series. I accept that this very well may be the journey. But I refuse to accept the sheer randomness shoved down my throat in lue of coherent and interesting storytelling. I want closure, damn it! With the characters I fell in love with in season 1 and followed for three years. Bitter? Me? Why do you ask? :) |
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holly96 |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
Quote: I'm pretty sure ep 19 will air May 15. Quote: That's what bugs me the most, too. And I know for a fact that it's bugging people who aren't shippers. Quote: The thing keeping me sane right now is that RT has specifically said he's writing this as a season finale, not a series finale (I wish he weren't, but the fact that I know he is makes this the teensiest bit easier to take). And it's pretty obvious from what we know of 19 that he is indeed treating it as a season finale. I'm sure things will get shaken up in some way in 20, but there's no way everything will be tied up. But my point is that if I remember that RT is not thinking of this as a series finale, than the journey isn't over, even if we don't get to see it on screen. And there's no way that Veronica/Piz was ever going to be RT's endgame for the series, I don't care what anyone says or what happens between them in the meantime. So for me, L/V is still the endgame, and I honestly think that they are for RT, too, in his hypothetical future series finale. So as long as I can remember that and imagine L/V finding their way back to each other in my mind (and, most likely, reading a ton of fanfic), than I will survive this. Grudgingly and kicking and screaming, but I will. And L/V will live happily ever after in my mind. |
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JaneDtwo |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
Quote: Mine too, but that, sadly, doesn't sustain me. I've been saying it before: if it's not on screen, it's not canon. RT can give a thousand interviews to the contrary, but the reality is that the series may very well end on Veronica with Piz. And that will be the end. The actual one. And it's a poor consolation for me to know that RT may not have intended it that way. And we didn't get to see so many things. We didn't get to see Veronica actually choose Logan over Duncan. We didn't get to see her say "I love you" to Logan. (A "yeah" or "yes" aren't completely it. That's a concession, not proclamation). We didn't get to see their first time. Or at least an aftermath of that. It's like all the good times for LoVe has happened off screen. I don't know. Maybe I'm unreasonable. And of course not in a million years will I believe that Veronica/Piz was supposed to be the endgame. But what of it if they ended up being. |
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CrazyVeronica |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
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We don't know that Veronica is over Logan. She may be making out with Piz, but Logan is probably going to be making out with Parker too. Yeah, it is harder to believe she can do it without being over him because she's never been the casual kinda girl in that department, but I think she's going to step out of her whole "only be intimate with the one you love" type of thing in order to try and get over Logan. But, it won't work. So let's not assume that she's not over him just yet.
And second, where do you guys get this CW video with CL and KB? |
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samwg |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
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CrazyVeronica - It's on the CW's site, under 'Videos A-Z'.
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bluelunagirl |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
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I really need our lovely spoiler friends to give me some hope.
I'm dying here. Like a couple of the posters said above....I need to know if there's any indication that Veronica is not over Logan while she's with Piz. I don't even care about Logan and Parker, Parker's not a threat. In all likelihood she won't even be on-screen at the end of this season. So what do we know? Veronica and Piz start dating in 17, continue in 18, and have progressed to making out in 19? Is that right? From what I've heard Veronica is still dealing with Logan in these episodes so there has to be something meaningful between them, right? Does Veronica at least show some resistance to Piz because she knows she's still in-love with Logan. Even if she's jealous because she thinks Logan has moved on with Parker, does she acknowledge that being with Piz is settling? Otherwise this whole arc makes no sense to me. Veronica has trust issues and sexual hang-ups that keep her from being with Logan but she can move-on and not have those trust issues with some new dude she met at college. I don't get it. I need help. I need hope. |
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secrets and lie |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
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I don't think these spoilers for 19 are so bad. Yes, Veronica will be with Piz and probably all schmoopy and ugh. But this is VERY consistent with how Rob Thomas operates. We know now that Piz is not what he seems and that this will come out by the end of the episode. Therefore the schmoop is once again about setting the stage for the rug being pulled out from under Veronica's relationship. Yes, it's a relationship we already can't stand. But it's doomed, folks. DOOMED.
I expect that Logan and Veronica will have an uncomfortable sort of friendship with oodles of subtext and hints of jealousy on both sides through the last episodes. I also expect that we'll see some signs of their connection in 20 but not a full fledged "we're back together and we're so happy" moment. Neither will be ready. But remember. Piz is DOOMED. Something about him is NOT WHAT IT SEEMS. RT is building up cute and sweet so he can once again show how not-cute and not-sweet it really is. Which leaves our reliable Logan. With him, what you see is what you get. He is complicated and intense and not easy, but he's very much still in Veronica's life, from the sound of things. In other words, he is not DOOMED. He is not a short term thing for Veronica. If the show doesn't get picked up for a fourth season, then I think I'll be happy with Logan and Veronica acknowledging in some fashion what's there between them. And, with this spoiler on the table, I'd be surprised if that doesn't happen. By the end of 20, if not sooner, Veronica will be single. And will probably realize (in whatever fashion RT decides to show it) that sweet airhead Piz was not trustworthy and easy after all. And Logan is trustworthy if not easy. Just saying. From my perspective, this spoiler makes things better for our ship, not worse. Realistically, things with Piz were going to drag out till the last minute, because that way the twist is more twisty. And RT does love him some twisty twists. So this all makes sense, especially in light of the fact that he thinks he's probably getting a Season Four (and it sounds like he may, shockingly, have some reason to believe this). I feel far less worried now than I did before today's spoilers came out. Honest. |
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Odintsova |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
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I hae never been a strong LoVe shipper. I like my couples simple, with out so much bouncing back and forth.
That being said, I agree with everyone who has said that RT et al have not been selling the relationship the way they should all throughout the show. I am also furious that Wallace it being pushed to the side. We should see more Logan and Wallace screen time, even better would be a scene between Veronica, Logan and Wallace. I also can't see Veronica getting "physical" with Piz, he just looks so much more puppy-like than any of her formr boyfriends. |
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bluelunagirl |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
Quote: But do we really know this? Our lovely spoiler sources have to be so careful that they can't give us any assurances of anything. The only thing we've heard is that Piz is not what he seems. We haven't heard that Veronica realizes this by the end of 19 and we don't know if she realizes this by the end of 20. Somebody knows it by the end of 19 but that doesn't mean it's Veronica or that she breaks-up with him in that episode. Who's to say she doesn't remain ignorant of his hidden side through the season finale. Maybe Veronica choosing to stay with Piz in episode 20 and not discovering his dark side is the cliffhanger for this season. What if only Logan finds out then he kicks Piz's ass. Seeing how Veronica has been written this season, what if Veronica continues to have no trust or faith in Logan and decides to believe Piz over Logan. I can see Veronica accusing Logan of beating up Piz out of jealousy and ignoring him again. Then, I can see Veronica tending to Piz's wounds and feeling like the experience has brought them closer together. It would also help justify her decision to move on from Logan. This scenario would make Veronica look really stupid, but she hasn't been the best detective lately so I can see the writers daring to go this direction especially if they are so dellusioned to think we'll get a Season 4. Until I hear otherwise from our spoiler sources I will feel more content to assume the worst is coming so I don't keep getting my hopes dashed. |
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JaneDtwo |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
Quote: Thank you. :) I like your take on the spoilers. As much as I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate the upcoming "hot and heavy," it stands to reason that it's a set up. I just hope it plays out well. (Oh, who am I kidding! I don't care how it plays out if the end result is Piz getting kicked out). I am so tired of hoping/not hoping/hoping again. LOL. I wonder what this "not what he seems" thing is. We know it's not that he is evil. And our source said that he is "innocent until proven guilty." (And may I ask why this is true for everyone but Logan on this show? Who is always assumed to be guilty until proven innocent? LOL.). So, what does this mean, I wonder. Is he involved in scam of some sort? "Not who he appears to be." Hmm. That smacks of secret identity. Is he posing as someone else? But who on Earth picks an alias like Stosh Piznarsky on purpose? Hard enough being born with a handle like that. :) Is he a cheater? Hard to believe. He was having trouble landing one girl. Somehow I am having no luck picturing him as a player. He cheats on his exams? Lame. Oh, wait, never mind ... :) Please, please let it turn out that he is gay!!! I seem to recall reading something (an interview?) about a character we already know turning out to be gay. Of course that was all the way back in October, but if they haven't dropped that, and if this is it ... Well, I'll cheer. (It won't make any sense, but I won't care.). OMG! I know! He slept with Madison during the Spring Break!!!! :) Yeah, okay, never mind that, either. :) He wears boxers with Hello Kitty on them! They get hot and heavy, and the pants come off, and Veronica runs away screaming! Oh, I know! It turns out he is a Republican! And that's one thing Veronica will never get over! Or, his band, Black Licorice, is a Michael Bolton cover band! That's a crime against humanity, as far as I'm concerned. :) We should amuse ourselves in the meantime trying to guess what Piz's secret is. :) He is such a bland, non-entity kind of a character, it's hard to imagine him doing much of anything. Okay, I think I feel a little better. :) |
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secrets and lie |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
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bluelunagirl, we do know a bit more. We know that things look better for L/V by the end of that episode than they do right now. And that moku613 also said,
Quote: Those are both very promising statements to me. Also, think about this show. Its history. The way Rob Thomas thinks. This secret Piz carries is something that will be hard for Veronica to take and will veryveryvery (very) likely mean the end of Piz/V. It's the only thing that's consistent with the way the man writes. I'm guessing -- but it's a wild guess here -- that it factors into the story in #20. Look, I understand fretting about our ship. But though I don't have confidence in RT to make the characterizations as deep or real as I think they should be, or to follow up on arcs, or for a whole host of other writing issues, I do have confidence that he intends to pull a fast one re. Piz and that he does NOT intend to drop the L/V ball in the long run. And I think we can work ourselves into a tizzy about it or we can bitch about certain elements (I too am not crazy about how KB seems to dote on everyone BUT JD) but feel relatively solid in the outcome, whether blatantly shown or strongly suggested. To me, RT has never shown any other intent than L/V being his ship of choice. He just likes to make things difficult in the meantime. |
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Piper |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
Quote: That or he likes to be a jackass....an obligatory jackass...oh my god, RT is Logan |
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secrets and lie |
Re: Episode 3x19 | ||
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JaneDtwo, you cracked me up!
Maybe he killed the real Stosh Piznarski and has been impersonating him? Maybe he's really 35 and is in the witness protection program? Being in school keeps him away from the bad guys, or so he thinks... BTW, I kinda think Moe was the gay one. Poor messed-up guy had a thing for Mercer. Anyway, RT said something about how it wasn't going to be pointed up in any overt way. Piz as gay? That would be. |
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