But really I think the only purpose of it in this scene was to get the conversation going. There's not really much ground the two of them can cover safely these days, so unless they want to talk about the weather, class seems the only safe option.
| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
WowSugarpuss |
Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
Didn't Veronica herself only mention it in 3x01 and 3x03 though? And neither time was really nagging, and she kinda dropped it straight away. I do agree that they don't need to keep hammering it into us through other means though - but at least they showed he got an A on that Sociology paper, so it's not like we're supposed to think he's just some slacker dumbass with no intelligence. Just someone who is incredibly smart but doesn't apply himself. So I really have no idea what the purpose of it is, or if there even is one, heh.
But really I think the only purpose of it in this scene was to get the conversation going. There's not really much ground the two of them can cover safely these days, so unless they want to talk about the weather, class seems the only safe option. |
|||
JenniferH |
Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
Agreed. She mentioned it in the first episode, but it wasn't in a nagging, you're a loser way, it was just, sigh, oh, Logan please go to class and don't waste your life, concerned girlfriend way. 3.03, yeah, she pushed and nagged, but it was just that episode and clearly they needed something to showcase their issues and that was all the only "issue" that had been established for the CW audience.
|
|||
PolarTruckin |
Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
ETA: I should have started by saying I know this is my irrational pet hate and I shouldn't go on about it like I do. lol It just annoys me so much, especially if they don't do anything with it. So I won't try and convince anyone past explaining my last post with this one.
I did say everyone was bringing it up not just Veronica. That was my point. We know, you don't have to keep telling us. I'd rather hear original dialogue, especially since it's brought up by more than just Veronica. It's more annoying coming from V than Logan (because Logan is usually referencing conversations with V when he brings it up) but either way, I just feel like they could joke about something else just for the sake of writing original dialogue. Unless this is going to come up as a real issue for Logan and that's what his arc was this season - leading him to either flunk out of college or decide to apply himself in a way he hasn't yet. I haven't heard any spoilers about that either way though so if they aren't going to use it, I don't get why you'd bring it up more than once or twice. It's information that we have because we've been told over and over again he's a slacker when it comes to classes in various ways. I feel weird having to list this stuff in this forum but I feel I have to now. Sorry if I missed some, my memory is so rusty on these episodes but I think I got them all. This is just my pet hate but his academics were brought up in: - I should mention these kind of insults should really be traced back to Plan B and his evil plagiarism. - Welcome Wagon: the first mention 'you haven't shown up to class', a mild judgement but it's only the first. - They only had one scene in My Big Fat Greek Rush Week so . . . - Wichita Linebacker - the worst episode for it. She says his horizons aren't expanding enough in college and the only class he goes to regularly is weightlifting (and it's not even a real class is the judgement behind the statement). But that's not the bad part, that was just to set up the fight they have in the hall where she mocks his 1984 reference like she doesn't think he's even read a book, "Did you read that in weightlifting?" (i.e. NOT A REAL CLASS) It also has his "cliff's notes" jab at himself in response to that, and then he goes on with the 1984 thing. All those jabs at his intelligence were also entirelly irrelevant to the real issues - her stalking him, him standing her up - she just said them to hurt him. - Charlie Don't Surf - she was very self conscious of his crappy grades but cut in and said he got high test scores to cover that information up. I've already debated this scene with everyone, suffice to say I fall in the coloumn of people who think she was way too protective/embarassed of all things Logan in this scene (especially since it doesn't seem she's that self conscious about Piz being in her home). - President Evil - She didn't say anything but Logan makes reference to her constantly nagging him about it until he agreed to apply himself more: "It was right after you said jump and I said how high?" In other words, she said it all the time and they had at least one serious conversation about it. - Hi, Infidelity - "You got an A???" Did he cheat? Didn't he cheat? *shrug* He's applying himself but she's still (pleasantly) surprised he got a good grade. Good puppy. - In Of Vice and Men the puppy is very, very bad and they don't do much talking at all. Same with Lord of the Pis. In Spit and Eggs he's just an all around disappointment (in his words) but he doesn't mention this as one of the long list of specific things she's pointed out for him as the season went on. - In Postgame Mortem he's not going to class and if he misses one more, he's out of there (and then he did . .. did he flunk that class?) - In Papa's Cabin he meets Parker for lunch and says specifically they've agreed no lectures on college responsibility (the implication being that he's had enough of those). Later he jokes about actually attending a class for once. - Now, in Un-American Graffiti we have jokes about highlighters and getting up for a *gasp* early class (shouldn't he be surfing?). It should be said there is a vague reference to something like this in Show Me The Monkey too when she says he isn't even an early lunch kind of guy, so what's he doing at college during her scheduled time: the morning? I feel like it's been brought up as many times as Veronica's trust issues and certainly more than Logan's violent tendencies or his genetic predisposition toward said violence. At the moment I'd probably think something was happening at the end of the season to cap off all these references, if we're also getting something about his Aaron-like qualities since I feel like that's been brought up so much less. I actually hope they do do something with it, otherwise I'll always wonder why it was brought up so much. Unless they just wanted it to be blatantly obvious that Veronica could study with her sweet boyfriend Piz, but not Logan. *shrugs* |
|||
samwg |
Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
HOLY MOTHER. New scenes for 3.16. OMG I have seen the light. These two are MFEO!!
It's like comedy hour, really. Veronica insults some kids, some firemen, and proves that a vagina should not keep her out of the FBI. The "girl parts" really are the sticking point on the applications anyway, but as long as she lets them know just how smart she is, it should be a snap. And Piz forgets he has a "TYPE" long enough to flirt (SWOOON) with some chick at a bar. Probably after Veronica's heartbreaking rejection. I can't believe what utter crap this show has become. And KB's voice annoys me to no end. I'm going to start watching the episodes on mute. Here's the part where I blow the tiny scene out of proportion (Rant full speed ahead, nothing to see here...): Does anyone else feel like they're showcasing Veronica more as not just a tough, smart person, but as a 'tough, smart, HOT CHICK'? I mean, looking back that was probably part of the premise -- I know RT said he imagined an Angelina Jolie-type for the role, and her sex apeal was always part of the character. I guess I just always considered that a commercial thing, a way to sell the show and get people to start watching. It's starting to feel more and more like that's the actual 'moral' of the show, like the reasons Veronica is OMG So Amazing is that she's smartBLAHtoughBLAH but ALSO SO HOT AND A GIRL! Almost like it's not expected for hot girls to be smart, and it smart girls aren't worth anything if they're not hot to boot. It's like when Wallace was telling Piz about her -- she's 'our age and a detective' = PSHH, but then he sees her and OMG she's suddenly impressive after all! I don't really know what I'm trying to say... this scene just REALLY bugged me. Veronica being a girl should not be painted as her only obstacle to having all her dreams come true. It's not noir, it's certainly not f#$%ing feminism, and I just don't see the point. Especially if Veronica is the only female character on the show who has to both face and rise above these horrible oppressors. |
|||
Meowmama |
Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
KB probably stipulated that in her contract: My HOTNESS MUST be emphasized and I'm to look glamorous at ALL times.
I CAN. NOT. STAND. PIZ. My blood starts boiling as soon as his goofy mug comes on screen. WHY are we forced to waste a majority of time in these final episodes on characters we don't even know? Makes no sense. |
|||
samwg |
Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
Maybe in her contract after the first season... I don't know, it just feels like after the first season, Veronica became this one-dimensional Amazon girl/Xena fantasy for a bunch of horny nerds in the writers room. And they decided it was both sexy and pro-feminism, and they have no intention of changing her ever. I wish RT had just kept her as a boy like he originally planned.
|
|||
JaneDtwo |
Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
Quote: Heh. Season 2 suffered from that, too. Kevin Smith (whatever his character's name was), Danny Boyd, the guy whom she tried to seduce as an entrapment in "Green Eyed Monster," Dr. Grifith (sp.?) -- it felt like in every episode someone had to make an obligatory pronouncement on how "hot" Veronica is. This year it feels more pointed, because it's ever more evident Veronica has bought into the hype. There's no other explanation for the plastic curls and over-the-top eye-shadow. Just one more thing I find off-putting. Also -- and I know it's subjective -- but I don't think Veronica is sexy. She is cute and pretty, but sexy is something that eludes her. It's not the clothes or the attitude. It's that indiscribable something that a person either has or doesn't have. A few times Veronica went for sexy, it came out grotesque. And yeah, why is that suddenly such an impediment for Veronica to be a female with the FBI aspirations (I mean, outside of the fact that she won't make it for legal and psychological reasons. Not for gender ones.)? Didn't we already meet at least one female FBI agent on this show? Granted, played by Xena who is like 8 feet tall, but the fact that she was a woman did come into play at all. |
|||
samwg |
Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
When has Veroncia tried to be sexy? I think that's more a KB thing -- she can't really pull it off without coming too forced, too strong, too awkward, too ____. I guess it works for some, but ... not really. I just meant that's what the writers were going for, that they want the whole male population of Neptune to fall down at Veronica's feet because she's OMG so charming and sexy and perfect.
Do you get what I'm saying though? It used to be understated in S1. I don't know if sexy is the right word, but it was more realistic, more sleek. The character and the season as a whole. S1 was about a girl who didn't overtly care about her looks anymore (even though she was still cute), didn't receive many positive benefits from looking hot (called a slut, unwanted attention from would-be-rats like Troy), but she was brilliant, flawed, she went to the mat for her family and limited friends-set. She had her head on straight, right? There's just something different now that I can't put my finger on. She's not self-depricating anymore (flat as God made me). She was just sort of cocooned before, self-assured, unaffected by other people's perceptions. Now, she not only cares that people take her seriously, but she'll blow a fuse on anyone who tries to talk down to her/make assumptions based on her appearance -- even if it's coming from some little junior high snot. I know they want to show her standing up for herself (and all of womankind, because Veronica Mars is a feminist ICON), but I thought she was supposed to have mostly stopped caring about that stuff after her best friend was killed. They keep highlighting it, and it's seriously ruining the character for me. If you're going to confront murderers in your free time, you shouldn't even HAVE a high school arch-enemy like Madison. I'm not saying she should just ignore every degrading comment, but I miss when she wasn't so aggressive. When she brought out the big guns for the underdog (Mandy) and actually picked her battles. I feel like they forgot how to write her as self-assured, and now we're left with this hollow Amazon princess, who will smite anyone who looks down their nose at her, and everyone in the entire show falls under either the "looking down their nose" or "falling at her feet" categories. It's annoying. It's not about Veronica's perception of the world (right or wrong) anymore, it's about the world's perception of Veronica (wrong) and her unending adventures in proving herself. |
|||
JaneDtwo |
Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
Quote: Yeah, that's how it comes off. When has she tried to be sexy? I guess every time she tries for the playful/flirty. Or putting on a "sexy" act for a case (she goes way over-the-top). Doesn't work for me in either scenario. Quote: I think you did fine. :) Pretty accurately observed differences between season 1 Veronica and the girl in season 2 and especially 3. Quote: And what's interesting is that I can't even tell from watching the show if this is indeed a shift in Veronica's goals and perseption or if this is the show itself making the shift. In an odd way, while in season 1 I felt the story was being told from Veronica's point of view -- the Veronica I understood, whose heartbreak and motives I could see and even get behind -- now it feels as if the view of Veronica (and, consequently the narrative being written) is from an outsider's perspective. And not only that, but an outsider who is an 09-ner in a sense that he/she doesn't like Veronica very much. She is presented as closed-off, condescending and judgmental. We are watching her overly-made-up and hair-sprayed -- a kind of a glossed-over, plasticky picture making it hard to see a real person underneath. We are still occasionally shown her hurt, disappointment, or sadness, but, for some reason, some of these moments fall flat. In addition, and despite the voice-overs, her motives are often inexplicable. In short, this is the view of Veronica that seldom fails to illicit resentment. And yeah, while I never thought her sexy, I saw her assertive and couldn't-care-less-what-anyone-thinks bravado of season 1 as tremendously appealing. She seemed past caring what the people she didn't like or respect said about her, and it felt genuine. In season 2 it was all mixed signals. She was kind of back with the 09-ners. She went to their parties, she grudgingly hung out with them while still showing contempt for most of these people. It felt sort of like "I'm too cool for you, but I am condescending to be here for whatever reason." And season 3 just feels like "I'm too cool for you. Period. And if you question my greatness, I will make you hurt." |
|||
PamPong |
Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
Quote: I completely agree. I have never considered Veronica sexy. Acctually, the fact that the script called for a "young Angelina Jolie" surprises me, because Kristen is far from that. She's a cute little blonde in my eyes. |
|||
Meowmama |
Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
So the opening scene is up. It's....ummmm...very Pizcentric to say the least. It looks like Veronica is unsure whether or not to go with him to the concert though obviously she DOES go. At first I was relieved to see that they weren't playing it (yet) like she's head over heels but then I remembered that bit from Ausiello. I guess they'll have another "mind blowing" (more like chunk blowing) smooch at the end. Probably after they get some sage words from Desmond Fellows that brings on epiphany # 15265645.
So awkward and not dating in 3.17 to sex at the beginning of 3.19. Huh. |
|||
Gval21 |
Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
I saw the scenes yesterday and was kind of happy to see her hesitating to hang out with him or whatever. But I also was thinking about what Ausiello said about the end and was like well obviously she has an epiphany and decides to go for it. I still think she will come off has unsure and kind of hesitant but kind of throw herself into being like I need this, Logan has someone else maybe I should try too. I still think she plays it as he is a rebound which I kind of like. Plus I like how in the preview she is in the elevator with Logan and Piz sees them.....
|
|||
samwg |
Re: Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
I really am all out of explanations for what they're doing with Veronica. Do the writers even talk to each other anymore? She "realized" Piz liked her at the end of WW when he asks whether 'that guy was her boyfriend', she realized, again, for sure, at the end of SMtM, and then they have her denying it to Wallace in the last episode, and then deciding to give Piz a chance afterall. And now she's backtracking, again?
I guess it's supposed to be a good thing that she keeps giving off hot/cold signals with Piz, even though the whole point of her talk with Wallace (I Thought) was for her to realize how 'unfair' she was being to the poor little puppy and to knock it off. Why do I feel like I'm watching all of this from Piz's POV? I have no idea why Veronica is acting like such a flake, and I'm sick and tired of seeing Piz's Desparate Struggle to Get the Girl. I don't think it has anything to do with showing that V is still into Logan, it's all about manipulating the audience into rooting for Piz. Problem: The show shouldn't be about F!$@ing Piz!!! I already watched the Desperate Struggle of the Emo Boy on The O.C and Adam Brody has better hair and he's not rambling on and on about (I presume) completely made up bands for the sake of setting up a make believe musician guest star. I'm going to hate this one. Also not looking forward to the re-mopification of Logan. |
|||
sowell23 |
Re: Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
Quote: Yes. A million times over, yes, yes, yes. Dear Rob: STOP SHOVING YOUR BORING CHARACTERS IN OUR FACES. PIZ IS NOT A PROTAGONIST. Also: re-mopification. Hee. |
|||
que penguins |
Re: Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
Opening for 318
GRRRR! Seriously!?! Stosh and Veronica in HER BEDROOM AND Kieth is all "It's so nice that one of your gentlemen callers have something to talk about other than how high the waves are breaking." ETA: Watched it again and I am pleased that Veronica made the face after Keith's comment. |
|||
lustingforlogan |
Re: Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
At least Veronica wasn't amused by Keith's comment.
|
|||
CrazyVeronica |
Re: Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
YESSS! She wans't pleased by Keith's comment at all. She didn't like his judgment of Logan. Which means, there has been a tiny smidgen of character growth! I was expecting Veronica to go along with it and make some joke about being happy not to have to talk about surfing or something. Instead, she makes no comment at all, only an unhappy face. I choose to take this as a positive sign, although I am completely aware I may be alone in doing so *L*
Okay, so I'll present the opposing argument just for funsies. Veronica didn't comment and made a disgruntled face because she simply didn't want Keith mentioning her ex gentleman callers in front of her current gentleman caller. This could also be the case. But besides the fact that I don't want it to be, it really does seem (to me) to be in character for Veronica to crack a joke in response, especially a joke about Logan being a slacker. |
|||
PamPong |
Re: Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
To me, Veronica's glare to Keith was more along the lines of "don't mention my ex in front of my new boyfriend". Go figure.
Can they just have Logan move out of Neptune? The "Hating On Logan" Hour is almost unbearable. Okay, Rob. We get it. You hate Logan. You've made your point successfully several hundred times. |
|||
witchnga |
Re: Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
That's just great. Keith bashes Logan. Logan who has saved his daughter how many times? That's great. Bashing Logan just never gets old, and we're supposed to believe Rob likes Logan. He doesn't. I'm not going to fanwank Veronica's reaction. She could just have gas. Whatever.
Fanfiction... the cure for the bad TV writer.
Avatar by ETS |
|||
JaneDtwo |
Re: Re: Re: Director's Cut and Opening Scenes | ||
|
Are they kidding me with this?
Keith was my one hope, actually. The guy seemed to at least warm up to Logan at the beginning of the year. I know they all suffer from amnesia where Logan is concerned, but what the f....? He saved your daughters life, you umitigated moron! I know Veronica holds that as cheap as dirt, but Keith? I feel like throwing up. |
|||