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Yes. ANd if this is the "glorious scene" RT is referring to, I say FEH. Because I have read lots and lots of VM scripts, and 90% of the scenes are better written than this one. I am NOT KIDDING. The dialogue is so stilted and banal.

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I absolutely believe you about that and I wonder if it's because the very idea of Logan apologizing to Piz is stilted. It certainly makes me stumble in my head, I wouldn't be surprised if that caused the writers major problems. I can't imagine Logan ever apologizing to him even if he realizes Piz hadn't done anything wrong. It's just . . . no. I think if I had watched that scene, I'd be doing a little of this because I remember Logan used to hold a grudge like nobody's buisness and he does have the right to hold a grudge against Piz for chasing his girl all year (in a way Logan did notice) and then getting her. Sure, he was wrong, but that doesn't mean he should suck it up and be the bigger man. It just makes him flaky, outer shell not-Logan. I miss rock-hard-go-all-night Logan who would get in my face and make me love him by standing by what he truly believed: that Piz is a jackoff.

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It really seems to me that it happens before the fight. Just the way the dialogue is makes me think that they've already had a bad fight.

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You could be right about this but I think another spoiler source told Jennifer it was after the fight. I'm not sure about that one. It could be either, IMO.

I just don't see why she'd say that just for Logan hitting Piz, since it was an obvious misconception that wasn't that bad. Considering how Veronica jumped to the very same conclusion about Logan, she'd be the HUGEST hypocrite to immediately tell Logan to get out of her life for doing the same thing. Oh, wait. Scratch that, she IS a huge hypocrite most of the time.

I thought Logan bashing the second guy was going to be portrayed much worse (with the Aaron reference and all). It would make sense to me if it came after this moment, only . . . it's terribly odd that Veronica would work herself into a big enough tizzy to cut him from her life after he apologized to Piz, after the fight. Actually the fact he apologizes to Piz after the bloody fight is weird and I think THAT is the part that could come off really Aaron-esque because that's how it's playing in my head:

- Bash the shit out of someone.
- Wipe blood off on shirt.
- Oh, and I'm really sorry Piz for ever thinking it was you, you're such a swell guy and great for Veronica blahblah.
- And there's STILL blood on the shirt.

I don't know . . . that sounds awfully like when Aaron asked how Logan's day was. Because if Logan apologizes to V and then continues the apology to Piz after bashing someone up, it's like he's not even acknowledging what went on in the middle. Very Aaron-esque. The banaliy of the script could also be explained by that, it might be meant to have a creepy factor that only the most banal "how was school, son?" dialogue can have.

But then I also think it makes a lot of sense that she'd say she needs time after he beats up Piz and they've had a semi-fight, but she only says he's out of her life after he disregards her advice and goes violent in front of her after being so wrong about Piz. Violent twice in the space of two episodes to defend her could be enough to make Veronica decide that he's never going to learn and then say 'get out of my life'.

Also, if Veornica is meant to have some kind of realization, it should come towards the end of the episode and there would be no point in making Logan go OPJ in the interim if she'd already come to her conclusion about him after what he did to Piz which wasn't even in episode twenty. The second fight is unnecessary, IMO, unless she was giving him another chance and contemplating "forgiving" him out of the goodness in her cold, cold heart.

I'm not sure what to believe about that. I think I'm leaning more toward it coming after the second fight but I haven't read the script so I'm not sure what cues you mean are in the dialogue.

I'm pretty sure Veronica and Logan would have already had a serious fight regarding what he did to Piz and since that fight was in episode 19, it would make sense that they'd already have had words about that of the awkward/disappointed/angry variety. I'm not sure what the verbal cues were but if there are just allusions to tension between Veronica and Logan and a serious disagreement, it doesn't mean it had to be the "stay out of my life" argument. Or does it? I suppose it depends on how blatant your cues were.

I just think she'd need another push and it would make sense for her telling Logan coldly to get out of her life after he goes nuts again in an Aaron-esque way because it shows even when he knows it's wrong and he's apologizing for another fight, he's not going to stop behaving that way. And suddenly in Veronica's mind violence is always bad even if the guy is guilty as sin and sexually humiliated her in a way she hasn't been humiliated since she was raped. In RT's head that would be a great end to the story and make Veronica see she can't save Logan. Whatev.

I just think there has to be a narratorial reason why RT is massacring Logan to the extent of comparing him to Aaron with a visual cue: the creepiest fight scene ever on the show. I hate RT for doing it but he won't just do it and take up unnecessary time in the finale if Veronica has already booted Logan from her life. If Veronica witnesses the second fight . . . well, there's your reason. She also witnessed the end of Aaron's fight in HD. It's there to be witnessed by Veronica and responded to. I think it does make sense for their big "fight" and conclusion to happen afterwards for that reason.

BUT . . . the second fight could also be considered glorious just for the action sequence, Logan fighting someone, and then apologizing to Piz. I could see RT finding that all kinds of glorious because it's like Logan is giving Veronica away by apologizing to Piz after being a violent asshole. Like he's saying Piz is the nice guy that V deserves. I can see RT being all over that. It's all kinds of Donut Run glorious.